VN Ren'Py Abandoned Nothing Is Forever [v0.7.3] [MrSilverLust]

osanaiko · Nov 11, 2022

DaFlurbIsHere said:
Funny, I was just thinking about mentioning the weird tone of the angry purple text too. I'm running through this game totally celibate because none of the girls appeal to me - it happens (more than you would think) and honestly, rejecting everybody you don't like is very satisfying. So for MCs inner voice to start berating him like this is... uttery bizarre. He made a mistake in the past, doesn't repeat the mistake now and doesn't play around with other people's emotions. And he's a bad guy now??? Probably would have been better to make two versions, one for an MC who fools around but doesn't commit, one for an MC who stays far away from all the ~~crazies~~ lovely ladies, but I understand that this would lead to far too much work. It just makes for a big disconnect with what is on screen and how I motivate MC's actions...

If you remember that MC has been in and out of some deep self loathing as part of his depression, then if he is in the "I can't fall in love with any of these gorgeous girls" path, it is not surprising that he views it from the lens that something is *wrong within himself*. He is not able to get outside his own head and realise that maybe just none of them is the right one for him, instead he sees it as a personal failing.

Arachnox · Nov 12, 2022

How do you get Lea's 'Relationship Path'? I keep getting the 'Helping Lea exploring her kinks'? Any idea?

gregers · Nov 12, 2022

Arachnox said:
How do you get Lea's 'Relationship Path'? I keep getting the 'Helping Lea exploring her kinks'? Any idea?

Start out by helping her to explore her kinks and she'll ask the MC to firm up their relationship at the end of the trip in chapter four and about becoming exclusive in chapter five.

dolfe67 · Nov 12, 2022

Azerin said:
I feel like you're misrepresenting my position here, as well as info you get from the game itself regarding Deb's relationship with Carl. First of all I don't hate that Deb is dominant, I wouldn't have gone her route if that bothered me. What I said was that the femdom escalates from relatively light stuff to quite heavier themes quickly into territory mild to moderate femdom enthusiasts might have trouble enjoying.

As for her relationship with Carl, to me it seems like he isn't into femdom at all based on his scenes. If you let Deb dominate you he just complains he wants Deb to fuck you (instead of her being in control of the action). And if you bull Deb he clearly loathes the idea of chastity (calling it "ridiculous"). So at this point it really isn't clear that Deb has extreme tendencies, just that Carl isn't into the idea of entry level stuff like face sitting. Additionally the cuckolding stuff seems more for Carl's benefit than Deb's as she mentions several times she would prefer monogamy, so she was already kind of compromising for his benefit and he was still unhappy. That is a WAY different situation than her relationship with MC, who is into at least trying femdom, and certainly enjoys some parts of it.

I certainly never suggested that Deb give up her dominant streak, that would be tragic indeed, merely that she try to work with MC to see what things he's enjoying the most within the context of femdom so they're both happy. Basic communication stuff, that's all. Unlike with Carl MC is definitely a fan of some things Deb likes so they have a much better foundation to build off of. But again, I think something like that is a more reasonable expectation if they have a frequent, official relationship compared to their rather spur of the moment encounters thus far, all of which start with MC trying to cheer up or comfort Deb, so he's not really approaching it from a personal enjoyment viewpoint to begin with. I also really don't feel it would weaken the writing or her authenticity to have a conversation like that, she's already been shown to be very considerate to MC! She also has relatively large incentive to make sure MC is happy with the intimate encounters as she has already lamented how hard it is to find a submissive guy and MC is really trying, on top of being an overall nice dude to her. He was clearly dismayed by the ruined orgasm and her denial of traditional sex, so it's not just me saying I don't like it, MC clearly has some regrets too. Do you really feel like Deb is so stubborn that she can't have thoughts like "hmm MC was sad I didn't let him orgasm last time, he's served me properly recently so I'll make him cum his brains out with my feet, or a facesitting handjob or -insert femdom fetish-". I mean it's literally written into her kinks that she is kind to people she cares about and rewards good behavior. It would not be hard at all for her to put together some femdom stuff she knows MC would enjoy as an act of kindness or a reward for maybe going out of his comfort zone a little. I find it really hard to believe she is only willing to accept a partner that completely transcends personal gratification altogether.

Finding the right way to balance 2 options would be pretty hard though as what people consider vanilla vs extreme varies wildly. For me personally I would enjoy a variation where the MC gets off properly, at least most of the time. A lot of femdom goes in that direction anyways where they frame it as getting the receiver addicted to the pleasure only they can provide, rather than what we've seen recently which is extreme denial of pleasure. Like if Deb gave you such a mind blowing orgasm with her thighs after not cumming for 2 weeks at her behest, MC might willingly accept wearing chastity afterwards since its connected to the pleasure. Or we got the fake "sex" scene in ch5, she was already rubbing her ass on your dick a bit, she could have finished you off. She still gets to tease you about not fucking her for real but at least you satisfied her and got a buttjob out of it so not really big deal to complain about in my books. At that point she already got off too so I don't see it seriously affecting her enjoyment. Doesn't have to be all the time either, that surprise ruined orgasm out of nowhere isn't really a deal breaker for me, its that she is basically saying you will never get a normal orgasm again that pushes it into the "hard to enjoy" category.

Orgasm denial is pretty mild. She already said in the previous sex scene that it would be ruined orgasm or not at all. I respect your opinion but I don't think it needs to be toned down for the likes of you.

Cock cage is more hardcore though but you can refuse it for now.

Azerin · Nov 12, 2022

dolfe67 said:
Orgasm denial is pretty mild. She already said in the previous sex scene that it would be ruined orgasm or not at all. I respect your opinion but I don't think it needs to be toned down for the likes of you.

Cock cage is more hardcore though but you can refuse it for now.

Yeah and that exact moment is what I stated as where the escalation was painful. And yeah orgasm denial and control isn't too crazy in moderation, but I think permanently giving up orgasms is on the more extreme end of things and not really something the average femdom enjoyer is really on board with. Honestly the extremity of the kinks isn't even the issue as I have no problems with some other stuff labelled more extreme. It's really just that specific thing that put me off.

Not too sure why its "the likes of me" though, am I randomly lower class now? However I do agree that if the dev has a clear vision for Deb that can't (or is unrealistic workload-wise) accommodate those of us who would like MC to get some pleasure while also subbing for Deb then he shouldn't really change it. I was really just pointing out where things started to get "hard to enjoy" for me and those similar to me and observing some narrative reasons things could (hopefully) go back into happier territory. So more of a plea for mercy from dev along with a bit of justification.

hh103 · Nov 12, 2022

Any sharing or cuck scenes yet?

selberdreher · Nov 12, 2022

hh103 said:
Any sharing or cuck scenes yet?

You can cuck Carl (the black dude), but Deb isn't happy with it and it leads (among other issues) to their breakup, so it doesn't look like it gets a second go, at least with this couple.
Although Kim can give you a HJ while her boyfriend is present and she can call him on her phone while you fuck her, he is oblivious to those activities, and therefore can't be really called cucking or sharing, i guess.

Dudlbert · Nov 12, 2022

MrSilverLust Dude, the scenes with the inner demon hit way to close to home. I came here to fap and not to feel.

Besides this, its a great game so far! I like, how different the girls are. The only thing "bad" so far is, that the lewd scenes vary in their quality. I.e. the scene with Jen in the Hotel: BJ was great (even if all the stopping and talking while blowing made me want to slap her

) but the sex scene afterwards wasjust 2 renders switching back and forth. That was kinda anticlimatic.

Nevertheless, keep up the good work!

Deleted member 4725210 · Nov 12, 2022

FAP369ZONE said:
[VN] [Ren'Py] Nothing Is Forever [v0.5.1] [MrSilverLust] [MinQ, MyRepack-YAC]

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cantwakeup111 · Nov 12, 2022

wiwem71072 said:
View attachment 2163595

yeah, i know. it's a somewhat sad state of affairs.

MrSilverLust · Nov 12, 2022

Azerin said:
Finding the right way to balance 2 options would be pretty hard though as what people consider vanilla vs extreme varies wildly.

Yeah, it's hard to provide content that will be enjoyed by everyone with every girl. I have to make compromises at every step of the way. The way I decided to handle that from the beginning was to somewhat split the different levels of vanilla/hardcore kinks amongst the girls. That's much easier than provide all kinds of different options for all girls. Have you tried Lea's path with the sensitive options? Seems like the kind of soft femdom-ish scenes you seem to enjoy.

This is not to say you don't make valid points. You absolutely do, I could have just as well have done things as you suggested. Or the way some other people have suggested here. Just in the last few days: some wanted to have the option to never forgive Emma and get her rid of their story. Many have expressed their wish that the chapters had more Olivia or Bri scenes, more character development for Carl and the other guys. Some say the story is becoming a bit clunky if you make certain choices regarding Kim and that it would be better if MC could push her way from Emma. There's also the issue with MC's internal monologue not correctly reflecting the player's opinions about all LI's in the game.

Meanwhile, in the lewd department, some wished for an extended scene with Lea with a chastity kink, while other's, like you, want the option for Deb's scenes to be more vanilla. On the other hand, some more femdom enthusiasts dislike that the MC is kind of topping from the bottom with his interactions with most of the girls. All while some want more animations, and others more frequent updates.

And I think I forgot some other suggestions. But all of these are valid and would increase the quality and variety in the game, for sure. Believe me, no one wants more than me to have way more time and resources to bring all the facets of the characters to life, introduce even more customization to make the game feel unique to each player, and make the updates just really well polished and rounded.

Porthas · Nov 12, 2022

honeryx said:
How can you claim to like the character when you specifically hate what the character is?

I don't have much interest in Deb's path as I've posted before, but she shouldn't change.

I don't think Deb has to change, I think the MC should have more opportunities to say "whoa there!, that's a bit extreme!" - that' s not Deb changing that's player agency.

To ME, sub and dom don't have to enter the BDSM arena. You can be submissive or dominant to widely varying degrees. It would take a lot just to get to spanking or kissing somebody's feet, in my universe of preferences.

Maybe the dev doesn't want to make the game a gradual introduction into the various levels of where all this stuff goes. That's fine. Just expect that for a non-BDSM normie like me, that scene was extreme. I tried it out and here is my reaction. WHOA, Let's Slow Down A Bit.

Compromise with MC is conceivable without changing Deb. She was already somebody willing to compromise - and that's normal. People who like each other *usually* try to find levels of compromise in all things in their relationship. They're not always successful at it, but they do make the attempt. MC could come *closer* to what Deb wants than what Carl wanted and perhaps that could work for them both.

I also have no problem with Deb tossing MC out if he doesn't want to do what she wants to do. Just give me that option to say "hey, I'm not putting on a plastic dick when you got a perfectly warm one here I'm attached to." lol

But it's no big deal if dev doesn't want to put in more choice like that, it's just my 2 cents on the matter if they're interested in the feedback.

Porthas · Nov 12, 2022

MrSilverLust said:
Yeah, it's hard to provide content that will be enjoyed by everyone with every girl. I have to make compromises at every step of the way. The way I decided to handle that from the beginning was to somewhat split the different levels of vanilla/hardcore kinks amongst the girls. That's much easier than provide all kinds of different options for all girls. Have you tried Lea's path with the sensitive options? Seems like the kind of soft femdom-ish scenes you seem to enjoy.

This is not to say you don't make valid points. You absolutely do, I could have just as well have done things as you suggested. Or the way some other people have suggested here. Just in the last few days: some wanted to have the option to never forgive Emma and get her rid of their story. Many have expressed their wish that the chapters had more Olivia or Bri scenes, more character development for Carl and the other guys. Some say the story is becoming a bit clunky if you make certain choices regarding Kim and that it would be better if MC could push her way from Emma. There's also the issue with MC's internal monologue not correctly reflecting the player's opinions about all LI's in the game.

Meanwhile, in the lewd department, some wished for an extended scene with Lea with a chastity kink, while other's, like you, want the option for Deb's scenes to be more vanilla. On the other hand, some more femdom enthusiasts dislike that the MC is kind of topping from the bottom with his interactions with most of the girls. All while some want more animations, and others more frequent updates.

And I think I forgot some other suggestions. But all of these are valid and would increase the quality and variety in the game, for sure. Believe me, no one wants more than me to have way more time and resources to bring all the facets of the characters to life, introduce even more customization to make the game feel unique to each player, and make the updates just really well polished and rounded.

Very ambitious to tackle a lot of this extreme kink stuff in a "close to realistic" way. If I were making a game, I wouldn't touch most of it with a ten foot pole simply because of its subjective nature and wide scope. I'd stick with vanilla sex and just go with making it closer to real sex than staged porn sex.

So kudos to you for even trying, sincerely.

There's obviously a lot here to like, I didn't delete the game or give up on it and decided to talk to the dev. That a testament to a good foundation of a developing game right there, in my humble opinion.

selberdreher · Nov 12, 2022

MrSilverLust said:
And I think I forgot some other suggestions. But all of these are valid and would increase the quality and variety in the game, for sure. Believe me, no one wants more than me to have way more time and resources to bring all the facets of the characters to life, introduce even more customization to make the game feel unique to each player, and make the updates just really well polished and rounded.

The only way to deal with this is to discard invalid suggestions and keep the others in the back of your head, to improve your game using them when possible.
Paraphrasing a popular saying:
"To do right by(to?) everyone is an art noone can achieve." (rhymes in my language)

You just can't possibly please everyone and trying to often fails on a bigger scale.
You are the only one who knows what your time constraints are, and what is possible to pull off in a certain timeframe. There will be always a compromise between a desired content and the variability of scenes on the one hand and the amount of work a dev can human possibly do.

This is a work in progress and noone can tell if or when it will be finished and how the final product will look like.
And it's in my opinion a very good sign, that MrSilverLust reads those points made by our community, considers them in earnest and is willing to implement parts of them when and where they fit.
Nobody can ask for more.

selberdreher · Nov 12, 2022

Porthas said:
I don't think Deb has to change, I think the MC should have more opportunities to say "whoa there!, that's a bit extreme!" - that' s not Deb changing that's player agency.

To be honest, i have a bit the same issue with my favourite Jen.
Although i consider myself a bit kinkier than the average vanilla guy, if NiF would be a Lego-Kit there would be a lot of parts i would take from one girl and apply it to another one, and yes, trash some of the stones for good, because i won't use them in any model.

The moment one decides to go for a ride with a girl the game assumes you're in it for atleast until the end of the current scene, sometimes providing an option to tone it down or to dial it up. And i somewhat support your notion to opt-out in the middle of a scene.

Look, i wasn't fond of the use of nipple clamps with Jen and it looks like she is the one (perhaps not the only one, but still) which will make use of the green T3 sado-maso kink. I expect to miss out on future content with her, because i won't follow this route (at least with her, gimme Kim for that painplay, dammit plx).
Adding the non-use of the nipple clamps would probably double the current pictures of Jen's scene (posing her with and with-out) and i believe the same would be true for Deb's(?) strap-on scene.

I don't think MrSilverLust doesn't want to give us these alternatives, but rather he/she/it/they can't, if they want to continue to provide updates, which have more than 30 minutes of gameplay, in a timely manner.

That's a bit sad, but i believe unavoidable.

DarknessDai · Nov 12, 2022

MrSilverLust said:
Yeah, it's hard to provide content that will be enjoyed by everyone with every girl. I have to make compromises at every step of the way. The way I decided to handle that from the beginning was to somewhat split the different levels of vanilla/hardcore kinks amongst the girls. That's much easier than provide all kinds of different options for all girls. Have you tried Lea's path with the sensitive options? Seems like the kind of soft femdom-ish scenes you seem to enjoy.

This is not to say you don't make valid points. You absolutely do, I could have just as well have done things as you suggested. Or the way some other people have suggested here. Just in the last few days: some wanted to have the option to never forgive Emma and get her rid of their story. Many have expressed their wish that the chapters had more Olivia or Bri scenes, more character development for Carl and the other guys. Some say the story is becoming a bit clunky if you make certain choices regarding Kim and that it would be better if MC could push her way from Emma. There's also the issue with MC's internal monologue not correctly reflecting the player's opinions about all LI's in the game.

Meanwhile, in the lewd department, some wished for an extended scene with Lea with a chastity kink, while other's, like you, want the option for Deb's scenes to be more vanilla. On the other hand, some more femdom enthusiasts dislike that the MC is kind of topping from the bottom with his interactions with most of the girls. All while some want more animations, and others more frequent updates.

And I think I forgot some other suggestions. But all of these are valid and would increase the quality and variety in the game, for sure. Believe me, no one wants more than me to have way more time and resources to bring all the facets of the characters to life, introduce even more customization to make the game feel unique to each player, and make the updates just really well polished and rounded.

bro lots of people LOVE and enjoy this game because of how you write it already so don't change anything because someone said you should !!!! don't Listen to anyone and do what you want if u start listing to what people want and add or remove then its over for you

saddlface · Nov 12, 2022

Don't fret over too many requests for specific stuff buddy you are doing a great job writing you game. So block out the noise if you have to... oh AND WRITE MORE FEMDOM SCENES FOR EMMA! Just kidding... (NO I'M NOT!)

Pendrell · Nov 12, 2022

Huge fan of Kim, so this was an excellent chapter for me. I like that (so far) there's no attempt to do the usual thing and make her redeemable or show a "good side". Several points where this is probed and shut down, which is refreshing. She's just bad and owns that. For players like me who enjoy that kind of character it's very well done. More please.

dolfe67 · Nov 12, 2022

selberdreher said:
it looks like she is the one (perhaps not the only one, but still) which will make use of the green T3 sado-maso kink.

Kim will make use of it but with the MC at the receiving end

Maybe an option to refuse to use the strap-on with Deb would have been ok but then it should kick you out of her path. The dev can't take into account the infinity of possibilities, even if you self-insert you're not the MC, he doesn't react 100% like you

Azerin · Nov 12, 2022

MrSilverLust said:
And I think I forgot some other suggestions. But all of these are valid and would increase the quality and variety in the game, for sure. Believe me, no one wants more than me to have way more time and resources to bring all the facets of the characters to life, introduce even more customization to make the game feel unique to each player, and make the updates just really well polished and rounded.

Yeah I recognize that pleasing everyone is an impossible task, even if you have the will and desire to implement some stuff, sacrifices must be made for the sake of reality. No worries if you feel like the kind of variations I suggested are a necessary sacrifice for productivity.

I haven't tried Lea's route yet though despite indications of some gentle femdom as exhibitionism and more extreme versions of it aren't really my cup of tea, but I certainly will give it a try soon as I definitely do like Lea as a character. What I did actually try was Emma's route which I have to say I am quite a fan of as well. I can see why some people don't like her but in my eyes their dynamic is excellent. She can be a bit abrasive and dishonest with her feelings but she is also not too proud to let the MC know she appreciates him, so the dichotomy is quite endearing. Neither side wants to back down but both seem willing to compromise so in the end its all in good fun. It ends up leaving me with the impression they bring out the best of each other. Like she has consistently tried to be there for MC who is obviously struggling, but also seeks his approval which MC isn't shy about providing so neither side is really the sole benefactor. On a specific note, I found it incredibly sweet of her to bring you flowers as a thank you for helping her with Monika, can't blame MC at all for wanting to jump her bones immediately. I hope her future path (seems to start at end of ch5) has some more of these wholesome moments.

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